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Discussion: Draco having the Elder Wand
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flanmann |
Draco having the Elder Wand
Jul 22 2007, 10:31 PM EDT
Okay... here's what I don't get.. When Harry tells Voldemort that he has the Elder Wand, and that he got it from Draco, I don't understand how Draco got it. I went back and read Half Blood Prince where Dumbledore dies, and for Draco to possess the wand, he would have had to kill Dumbledore. But he didn't. Snape did. So really Snape should have had the Elder Wand. Did I miss something? How did Draco get it? I know there was a lot of wand switching going on, so maybe I missed it. Thoughts?
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Keiryn |
1. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Jul 22 2007, 10:46 PM EDT
Harry does not tell Voldemort that he *has* the Elder Wand, just that he's the master of it. Draco never possessed the Elder wand. However, he did become the master not by killing Dumbledore, but by Expelliarmus-ing him at the top of the tower in Book 6. Then Harry became the master when he disarmed Draco by stealing his wand (even though that wand isn't the elder wand).The Elder Wand itself goes from Dumbledore to Snape to Voldemort (then to Harry at the very end of the battle when he casts Expelliarmus). But the mastership passes from Dumbledore to Draco to Harry. 73 out of 74 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Gentlegirl |
2. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Jul 23 2007, 4:49 PM EDT
The night Draco was supossed to kill Dumbledore, Draco used Expelliarmus, to disarm Dumbledore. Thus cosidering that Dumbledore had the wand with him, Draco rightfully took the wand .
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flanmann |
3. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Jul 23 2007, 5:29 PM EDT
But, when Harry blocks Voldemort's killing curse, Voldemort, holding the Elder Wand, couldn't kill Harry because the wand wouldn't kill his master. But, why did it work on Harry when Voldemort cast the killing curse that destroyed the last horcrux. Also, wouldn't that constitute Voldemort beating Harry in a duel, therefore making him the new master of the Elder Wand?
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Bwana |
4. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Jul 24 2007, 7:56 AM EDT
"But, when Harry blocks Voldemort's killing curse, Voldemort, holding the Elder Wand, couldn't kill Harry because the wand wouldn't kill his master. But, why did it work on Harry when Voldemort cast the killing curse that destroyed the last horcrux. Also, wouldn't that constitute Voldemort beating Harry in a duel, therefore making him the new master of the Elder Wand?"It seems that if Harry didn't fight back, it wasn't a duel. There was no contest, hence no defeat. Harry went in on a suicide run, prepared to die...he saw the Snape/Dumbledore conversation in the pensieve, and knew that at some point Snape was to tell Harry that Harry had to die to stop Voldemort. Then he finds that the AV curse destroyed the horcrux (presumably the crying creature at the Kings Cross limbo), but that he can, if he wants to, continue to live...which, to Voldy's regret, he does. 11 out of 12 found this valuable. Do you? |
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arpruitt78 |
5. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Jul 24 2007, 1:27 PM EDT
I'm not sure how he got it either, but I work with someone that's a bigger Potterhead they I am so I'll ask him and get back with you on that.
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DarinB |
6. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Jul 26 2007, 5:29 PM EDT
You explained this well. this is the main point when harry was at the station with Dumbledore and he asked am i dead and Dumbledore said no. so the wand actually didn't kill harry himself but did kill that bit of voldemort that was in harry therefore causing the separation. so the elder wand would not kill it's owner the story is brilliant. It seems that the only way to win a wand is through the disarming curse in a duel not when it is taken from someone when they don't fight back and are killed or in dumbledore/voldemort case when the person is already dead. even though the wand at that time actually belonged to draco even though he didn't have it and Dumbledore was buried with it.
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conahan303 |
7. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Jul 29 2007, 7:49 PM EDT
"But, when Harry blocks Voldemort's killing curse, Voldemort, holding the Elder Wand, couldn't kill Harry because the wand wouldn't kill his master. But, why did it work on Harry when Voldemort cast the killing curse that destroyed the last horcrux. Also, wouldn't that constitute Voldemort beating Harry in a duel, therefore making him the new master of the Elder Wand?"Harry had a piece of V inside him so when V tried to kill him in the forest, the spell only killed the part that belonged to V. That's also why the crusio curse didn't work after he woke up, because it doesn't attack it's master. 4 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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DarinB |
8. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Jul 30 2007, 9:27 AM EDT
Thank you this Could not be better explained the difference between having it in your hand and mastership over the wand. But i think that Voldy was the one that broke Dombledore's tomb and took the wand not snape. The wand changes ownership, it seems, only by the disarming curse. Since it will not let the owner die it will allow the owner to be disarmed. Funny how a disarming curse which seems light wight gets the elder wand, but not an unforgivable curse. unforgivable in the eyes of the ministry at least
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conahan303 |
9. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Jul 30 2007, 10:22 AM EDT
That's the trickery behind Death's gift, the eldest brother asked for "a wand more powerful than any in existance: a wand that must always win duels for his owner, a wand worthy of a wizard who had conquered death!" You only win if your the owner, it can't help you if you can't use it(disarming spells), and it will only be passed if it's owner doesn't die(killing an owner is delivering death not conquering it). ALL HAIL CHILDHOOD CAUTIONARY TALES!!!!
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Prongs |
10. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Sep 8 2007, 4:23 AM EDT
"But, when Harry blocks Voldemort's killing curse, Voldemort, holding the Elder Wand, couldn't kill Harry because the wand wouldn't kill his master. But, why did it work on Harry when Voldemort cast the killing curse that destroyed the last horcrux. Also, wouldn't that constitute Voldemort beating Harry in a duel, therefore making him the new master of the Elder Wand?"When Voldemort tried using the Killing Curse on Harry, it didn't work because it did not kill him (Harry being the rightful owner at this point). Ollivander said that the manner of taking depends, and that subtle laws govern wand owership. The wand must be forcibly taken from the owner. Winning the duel is not enough. You must either Disarm your opponent (as Draco Malfoy did to Albus Dumbledore) or physically take it from them (as Harry Potter did to Draco Malfoy). Voldemort only sought to kill Harry and did not manage to wrest the wand from him. Seeing how Voldemort never won the wand's allegiance, it would not kill Harry so Voldemort could not become the Elder Wand's owner by using it on it's rightful owner. My only issue is that Harry never took the Elder Wand from Draco. He only took Draco's Hawthorn wand. So I can only conclude that if you win a wand's allegiance from someone, then all the wands in their allegiance will shift as well. 5 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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DarinB |
11. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Sep 8 2007, 8:48 AM EDT
"When Voldemort tried using the Killing Curse on Harry, it didn't work because it did not kill him (Harry being the rightful owner at this point). Ollivander said that the manner of taking depends, and that subtle laws govern wand owership. The wand must be forcibly taken from the owner. Winning the duel is not enough. You must either Disarm your opponent (as Draco Malfoy did to Albus Dumbledore) or physically take it from them (as Harry Potter did to Draco Malfoy). Voldemort only sought to kill Harry and did not manage to wrest the wand from him. Seeing how Voldemort never won the wand's allegiance, it would not kill Harry so Voldemort could not become the Elder Wand's owner by using it on it's rightful owner. My only issue is that Harry never took the Elder Wand from Draco. He only took Draco's Hawthorn wand. So I can only conclude that if you win a wand's allegiance from someone, then all the wands in their allegiance will shift as well."I am not sure about win all the wands or if it matters since it is customary to have only one wand. JK never mentioned anyone that had a spare wand. it is an interesting concept though. It is funny that poeple think winning a duel can only mean death which is impossible when you are the owner of the elder wand. There are things worse than death as Dumbldore said many times. being disarmed certainly is worse than death it is loss of honor. I think it is funny how Voldy would never use the expeeliarmus wait i think Voldy or was it pettigrew who used it in the grave yard? i have to re check that. other than that i think only the kids used it, not the real bad guys. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Prongs |
12. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Sep 9 2007, 12:29 PM EDT
Well, seeing as how Harry disarmed Draco of his Hawthorn wand, and that is what caused the Elder Wand to shift allegiance, it seems to be the only plausible explanation to me.
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DarinB |
13. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Sep 9 2007, 1:28 PM EDT
"Well, seeing as how Harry disarmed Draco of his Hawthorn wand, and that is what caused the Elder Wand to shift allegiance, it seems to be the only plausible explanation to me."that does sound correct to me. somehow wand ownership is really a spiritual or esoteric ownership not just the physical possession. Great twist in the story, i really enjoyed the entire series. I am grateful that a friend encouraged me to read it. I originally thought it was jsut a kids book. turned out to be much more. i suspect eventually be canonised as part of English literature and a lot more interesting than Dickens. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Prongs |
14. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Sep 10 2007, 12:51 PM EDT
Amen!
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MmmRon |
15. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Oct 2 2007, 9:06 PM EDT
oook, so I'm a little confused. From what everyone is saying -- Draco was the last possessor of the Elder Wand before Dumbledore died, so even though Malfoy didn't keep the wand, the (I guess) essence of the Elder Wand remained with Malfoy, and assumingly in Malfoy's own wand. Then Harry got hold of Malfoy's wand and etc. etc.So at the end when Harry said he was going to put back the Elder Wand where it came from, was he talking about Dumbledore's wand or Malfoy's wand? 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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MmmRon |
16. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Oct 2 2007, 9:17 PM EDT
never mind! I just read something on a different link and it made me see this whole wand thing in a different perspective. thanks tho :)
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MasterCheeef |
17. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Jan 26 2009, 12:03 AM EST
the reason why Snape killed Dumbledore is so Draco could be the owner of the wand, if Draco killed Dumbledore then he wouldn't be the owner of the elder wand. Therefore Harry would be able to become the owner of the wand by disarming Draco.
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Prongs |
18. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Jan 28 2009, 7:09 PM EST
Snape killed Dumbledore because Dumbledore was already dying. Also, he didn't want Draco to kill him because doing so would tear his soul apart. Draco becoming the owner of the Elder Wand was completely unintentional (Dumbledore told Harry at King's Cross that he meant for the Elder Wand to end up with Snape). Harry's path led him to own the Elder Wand, but Draco was it's owner at that point, and that was "the flaw in the plan".
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HPfanboy |
19. RE: Draco having the Elder Wand
Aug 15 2009, 8:23 AM EDT
To be the master of the Elder wand, you must disarm the owner or kill it. Draco first disarmed Dumbledore before Snape kills him. I hope this information hepls you understand.............
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